Starter Motors replacements

[gem]

Does anyone know of any other starter motors that fit the twin cam engine? I do know that the twin cam starter is rated at 1.1kw and the sohc starter is 900watts. I have never tried a sohc starter which should have enough grunt when cold but when it gets hot it might stuggle?

[Poida]

I've heard others say they used the SOHC starter with no problems.

[archangel62]

Remember it's easy to get starters reconditioned, half the time these pad things in it are just worn. Some places bullshit you and rip you off, but chances are you could just get it fixed.

[gem]

I have had my starters rebuilt in the past. But I have one that is destroyed so I use it for spares. I was thinking of modifying a Toyota reduction gear starter. Places like Caslte Auto or the Rod shop do similar types for everything but Gemini.

[twincamTG]

i'm confirming what poida said cos ive done it to mine. the twincam and SOHC starters are exactly the same. my 2c worth

[-elky-]

OR u could use a diesel gem starter these have a reduction drive i have never tried to fit 1 on a twin cam but can't see why they wouldn't fit, seeing as they fit on a petrol single cam

the 4z series motors also were similar maybe they have a greater output?

either way a starter is the least of your worries with a twin cam

cheers

[gem]

Thanks for the info guys.


Elky- either way a starter is the least of your worries with a twin cam
I assume you mean sourcing spares - I have never had any problems sourcing parts except sump gasket and cam bearings but I have never needed these bearings anyway.

[Shano]

The correct Hitachi DOHC cam starter is quite easily sourced from any reputable auto elec. I know we have at least 10 reco's on the shelf.
The only problem I can see with using SOHC starter is the fact that they are on the inlet side of the SOHC, The twin-cam has the starter on the exhaust side, Now the standard gemini starter Nose Cone is going to be around the wrong way and will only fit if mounted upside down (Solenoid facing down)!

Iam yet to try a 4ZE1 Rodeo gear reduction starter but cant see a problem as long as the pinion matchs then everything would be fine, They can also be cheaper to recondition when they do fail.

[IZU069]

I've run DOHC starters on Belletts, Wasps & Florians. I'm currently running a RHS Gemini (arghh - Gemini parts - yech!!) starter in my Wasp - the solenoid merely points horizonally left instead of upwards.
I have a 4ZE1 reduction started (RHS) which I'm about to try.
From what I can see, they all appear to be the same.
I have heard of "bolt hole elongation" being needed, but I think this referred to mounting a Rodeo box in a Bellett.
Electrical bushes should be replaceable.
I even reckon the gear (which connects to the ring gear) should be equivelent to (Hitachi?) started off Toyotas and maybe other Jap cars.
Anything around 1kW should be adequate.

If desperate, I have a spare (Melbourne).

Peter (IZU069 & IZU 086)

[archangel62]

Anything around 1kW should be adequate.

That's it... Given the ease the Gemini starter motor starts any of the SOHC engines, it shouldn't really matter.

[IZU069]

A comment after 3.5 years experience since:

The 4ZE1 and similar reduction starters are the beez neez.
My G161OHV with 4ZE1 reduction starter (and a converted Gemini dizzy with RB reluctor guts & RB blue coil) cranks and starts cold with a 5.2V battery. That is sik! It makes a mockery of my 8V-16V design rule.

There is an aftermarket inline-reduction starter available for the Gemini for ~$200 (as at early 2009). It looks the same as a standard Gemini starter but is a bit smaller. Apparently very reliable. (Bell Autoelectrics, Heidelberg, Vic.)

It seems all the G & 4Z series petrol starters are the same fit (excluding Bendix spring types!).
Whilst the RHS starters (G-Z & 4Z) can be used in LHS starter petrol engines (G-OHV, G-S & G-W), they won't fit in Geminis due to the exhaust. But maybe Gems with diesel crossmembers and different exhausts could use them?
RHS starters mounted on the LHS side means the solenoid sits horizontally (away from the block d'oh!).

I have an LHS reduction starter from a circa 1985 Jackaroo diesel. However its mounting diameter (sandwich plate hole) is much bigger than the petrols.

Although the Gemini starters look the same as DOHC (LHS/RHS excepted), the DOHC has a larger diameter motor.
Whilst the brush mounting plate, brushes, and solenoid can be exchanged (and maybe the throw-out gear), nothing else can - including the longer solenoid throwout arm.


FYI - DOHC starters consume around 240A.
The starter solenoids take 20A, or 40A if the starter heavy terminal is NOT connected to the battery. (IE - the start switch feeds a centre-tapped earthed solenoid; the other end connects to the motor's stator - refer to wiring schematics.)

If you have troubles cranking your engine - don't get a bigger battery, get a reduction starter!! They are also good for bogs, car ramps, and railway crossings.

[archangel62]

LOL, "good for bogs, car ramps and railway crossings" - brought out the sadistic imagination in me!

The LHS reduction starter from 1985 Jackaroo diesel - aside form the larger mounting diameter, is it feasible? ie similar drive gear, two bolts in same location, physically clears?

Sounds like those aftermarket inline reduction starters are a feasible (albeit expensive) option!

[IZU069]

Nah - not the bigger LHS reduction - wider bolt spacing etc.

But that "bigger" hole surprised me. People have used diesel boxes for Belletts & DOHCs and I wasn't aware of a bigger starter.
Maybe it's the early diesels up to the C-190? But was this from a C-190?
I have been told that up to (& including?) the C-190 are LH starters.

Plus that reduction is pretty big anyhow.
The 4ZE1 is generally just smaller.

That aftermarket Gemini reduction is cheap for a new starter, and quality. But yeah - a tad more than a $35 4ZE1 from self-serve wreckers.

If a normal Gemini starter were to fit, then that reduction would too. It is no bigger than the Gem's, and is a bit shorter.
You'd think there would be an inverted version...
Just get diesel crossmember. Then you can join the Bellett clubs and use their bits. Again.

[Poida]

All the early Rodeo/Jackaroo diesels are the C series and all have the starter on the passenger (left hand) side. They are quite a physically small starter too, a reduction geared starter.